How to Optimize Your Website’s Digital Experience to Increase Website Conversion and Sales with President of Blue Tangerine Greg Bray

Stephanie Lindamood: (03:06)
All right guys. So welcome to the show today. We have a special guest. His name is Greg Bray. He is the president of blue Tangerine. I'm going to let him tell us what that is here in a second. So we want to thank you for joining us on the show today. So Greg, thank you for joining us. Can you tell us a little bit about blue Tangerine and what you guys do?

Greg Bray: (03:29)
Sure. Well thanks Stephanie. I really appreciate the opportunity to, to be with you today. So blue. Tangerine is a digital marketing and website development agency and we specialize in helping home builders, uh, grow their leads and sales by using, you know, their, their website better.

Stephanie Lindamood: (03:44)
Ooh, tell me more. So what do you guys do? Do you guys design them? Do you create them, maintain them? All of the above. All, all of them

Greg Bray: (03:52)
above. So really the, the heart of what we're trying to do is help you build a better website that, that converts and helps the buyer through their journey more effectively and then drive more traffic or prospective buyers to that website by doing things like search engine optimization, paid search, email marketing, those types of techniques.

Stephanie Lindamood: (04:12)
Okay. And so are you guys finding, obviously customers are going online, do you have any stats around like, you know, 80% 85% of clients are going online before they walk into the sales office or anything like that to kind of get a feel for where they're at in the process when they get online and then when they step foot in the model home?

Greg Bray: (04:34)
So the, the statistics that I've seen and a lot of those have come from the national association of realtors over the last few years, um, is that we've broken that 90% thresholds. Um, and, and potentially I could probably argue that it's closer to 98 or 99% have done something online today. Um, especially when you consider that doing it on their phone counts as doing it online. Um, you know, doing some type of search there. So it is absolutely a critical part of, of the home buying process and, and being available to your buyers is to have a quality online presence.

Stephanie Lindamood: (05:11)
So I would say that most of the builders, if there's sales and marketing management team's listening on the show, they're probably sitting there going, well we have a website. So I mean most people do in business nowadays. So when you have a client that you're acquiring, what are things that you're helping them with? Cause I'm assuming unless they're a newly formed builder, they probably already have a website. So how are you helping them with maybe their current environment?

Greg Bray: (05:39)
You're, you're right. Most people today do have something out there. Um, I, I am surprised every now and then we run into folks who, you know, Hey, I'd work word of mouth and I've got a Facebook page and no website and things like that. It does happen still. And it, it always kind of surprises me when I run into it. Um, but what we're trying to do is, is take that website and make it work harder for you there. There's been over over the years, um, builders have put something out there because they knew they needed to or somebody told them they were supposed to. Uh, and now it's about actually saying, you know, are you getting that return from that website that you need to, is it actually working for you? And if it is, can you make it work harder for you as and become kind of your best salesperson?

Greg Bray: (06:25)
Um, now again, the website isn't, um, a standalone entity in that whole sales process by any means. But where, where we also see a lot of builder's interest growing is, okay, I've got a website. It's doing a pretty good job. But how do I get more visitors to the site? So now we get into, you know, a lot more interest in SEO and some of those types of search engine optimization, sorry, I make sure I'm not using acronyms that uh, that not everybody's familiar with. So, um, optimizing that, that website so that you show up for those searches, uh, that, that you want to show up for and, and should show up for based on your, your product and location.

Stephanie Lindamood: (07:06)
So how would a builder or a company know if their websites getting them in return just right now before they even come in, how does somebody know or, or a marketing department, our sales department know the impact that their website has? Is there a way to track that?

Greg Bray: (07:23)
There? There is and that's actually a, an area where a lot of people are not tracking it. You know, they, they haven't even been paying attention to it. And, and that's really probably the first place to start. And so now the question becomes, well, did that person who walked into the sales center, you know, this weekend, did they actually look at our website? Do we even know? Did we ask them? Did we even do even kind of say, Hey, how did you learn about us? You know, some of those basic questions, um, to, to try and connect it. But, but there's more, uh, technical ways that you can connect those leads back and track them better, you know, with, with website analytics, uh, with, you know, connecting things directly to your CRM systems and such, so that, so that you're able to, that was all on the website and therefore we know a little bit about them from the fact that they've done research about us and we need to recognize that, that they are a prospective buyer that knows something and then decided to come. They didn't just drive by then just wander around on a Sunday afternoon with nothing else to do. But, you know, check out a model home. They've done some research, they've looked at our stuff and they're interested and we need to treat them that way.

Stephanie Lindamood: (08:37)
And are there ways that the builders are tracking it other than, or ways for you to see if the clients are going to the website? Other than the, like when I used to sell new construction, we would have a guest card. Right. And this is a while ago, so I'm going to date myself here. But like, you know, we'd ride out, fill out, you know, how did the customer find you? And there was usually they only wanted you to give one answer drive by billboard realtor, that kind of thing. Website was one of them. And I think what would happen is over time, sometimes the marketing departments or managers would be like, Oh, well nobody coming in said billboards so we may not invest in billboards next year. And it was kinda like, well, they only said the one thing, but those other things may have helped support the brand, which ultimately got them in the door. So if they don't write website or internet on the guest card, is there a wait to like track by their emails or just to see how they're finding us?

Greg Bray: (09:34)
Uh, you know, you're, you're absolutely kinda hitting on one of the, one of the great challenges of, of marketing and tracking there. And that's that whole attribution of, of which source drove the lead. Right. You know, did they, and, and the reality is, is it's all of them together, multiple expressions. Um, you know, there was a, I was at the international builders show a few weeks ago and, and you know, one of the speakers there, um, [inaudible] talked about how the, the buyer journey has changed from kind of a linear idea to, to being a, a pinball machine. You know, people bouncing around all over the place. That was Matt Riley.

Stephanie Lindamood: (10:13)
That's how my brain feels half the time. Yeah.

Greg Bray: (10:15)
I'll, I'll give Matt a shout out for that. Cause that, that one really connected with me. Um, but, uh, but, but that particular idea that, that people are not just doing one thing before they come in. And so, so to kind of get back to your question, how do we track that? How do we, how do we help figure that out? Um, with the website, what we need to do is track that behind the scenes. And you know, using tools like Google analytics, using things like event tracking or you know, call, call tracking, there's, there's ways now with the technology for example, that I can change the phone number on your website based on where somebody came from to view the site. So that, so that when they look at the website and then they make a phone call, it's, and we're not, we're not saying you gotta change your phone number in your sales center.

Greg Bray: (11:04)
Okay, this is all the, the power of digital, you know, technology and, and, and phone forwarding and things like that. Um, but, but now we say, okay, well if this person came from an email campaign, for example, they see phone number, number one, if they came from a paid search campaign, they see phone number, number two, et cetera, et cetera. And you can get as granular as you want to. And now when they call, we can get a log that says, Hey, we got this many calls on phone number one and we got this many calls on phone number two. So these people in the past would never get leads because they called, you know, and, and they, they used the phone so they would be a call in lead or something like that. But now we can actually, you know, using technology, just a simple example of some of the technology that's out there to be able to, to help narrow in on which campaigns are driving. You know, you can put a different phone number on the billboard if you want it to and be able to track how many calls came the billboard. Um, you know, so let's just again, ways that, that there, that we can narrow in on some of those opportunities to track and, and, and really see which part of our marketing is working and, and helping us drive those, those leads.

Stephanie Lindamood: (12:09)
Yeah. No, that sounds great. So what are things you're finding when you do acquire a new client? What are some things that you notice right away about their website that you guys help them to up Uplevel?

Greg Bray: (12:21)
So the, the first thing I look at when I'm looking at a, a builder's website for the first time is can they answer the questions or, or can a visitor answer the questions? Um, where do you build and what kinds of homes do you build, uh, and, and be able to do that almost instantly. So the where and the what? Yeah, because, because that's really, you know, [inaudible] you've got to remember that, that the purpose of someone's first visit to your website is actually not really to learn about you. It's to eliminate you. Um, because they ha because they have so many choices and so many options. You know, they've just searched on, you know, new homes in, pick your city name, you know, that you're trying to, and they've got this huge list of Google results that they're looking at and they're clicking through and they're just trying to find that excuse to say, Nope, not the right one, not the right one, not the right. And because otherwise they're overwhelmed with too many choices. And so, so what are the things that eliminate you? It's ugly. That eliminates you. Okay.

Stephanie Lindamood: (13:22)
You're there. How do you, I totally feel you on that. How do you determine, because it's subjective, like beauty is in the eye, they'd be holder, but how do you objective Lee determine if a site is ugly.

Greg Bray: (13:35)
If you're right, it is totally subjective. And if you're, if your website is over, you know, five or six years old, I'm going to say, even if it's not ugly, it's going to look outdated. Um, you know, even if it was beautiful when it was designed, uh, if, if your website doesn't have kind of the right type of font treatments that make it look modern, if, if it's too compressed together, it doesn't kind of take advantage of the white space and, and the larger screens and things. Now, of course, then of course we've got the smaller screens to deal with. Um, but yeah, you're right. Um, what one person loves as art, another person thinks is hideous. And, and, and that's kind of the way it is, but, but we kind of know that feeling of, you know, and again, you wanna you want an objective thing, ask your 10 closest friends what they think, you know, just don't, don't spend a lot of money on big focus groups. Just ask some friends, you know, w what's your reaction when you look at this?

Stephanie Lindamood: (14:29)
So what would you say would be like the top three things that you, you would like a website to have when you see it for, to be appealing to the user.

Greg Bray: (14:37)
So, so builders have a huge advantage because their product is so visual, right? People, people want to see photos, you've got to have photos, um, and, and they need to not just be of the front of the house. You know, there's a lot of that out there. And again, not that that's bad and things, but it also, not just from the product. A lot of builders are not selling just product. They're selling a lifestyle lifestyle. Yeah, they're, they're selling. Yeah. They're they, they're selling a particular community feel and, and things that are so, so that can be, you know, the, the fancy clubhouse that can be the hiking trails, that can be the, the pool that can, whatever it is that goes along with the community that that helps connect and say, Oh, I want to live there. Yeah, exactly. It's emotion is huge. Uh, and, and all of that. So, so yeah, pictures, maps or however are just as important in answering that other question of where, where do you build it? You know, so it doesn't matter how beautiful it is. If you're building in Texas and I'm trying to move to, to Washington state, then it's just not gonna matter how beautiful it is. I've got to have that, that connection that says, Oh yes, this is close to what I need or what I'm looking for because I'm, because again, location is part of the product.

Stephanie Lindamood: (16:01)
So when you bring that up about location, let's switch real quick. It's a little, it's connected. But what about the importance of blogs or like the content style of blogging versus just having communities? Their about page is that important anymore with SEO and search engine optimization. Blogging

Greg Bray: (16:21)
still has an important role to play in, especially from an SEO standpoint. Now a blog is aimed primarily at one educating your, your visitors, your potential customers. So let's, let's not blog just for Google, right? Let's, let's, let's blog for people and, and, and have useful content. Um, because as you educate your, your buyer, you, you become an expert. You become someone they can trust. You become someone that they look to, even if they're not ready to buy today. If you could, you could pick up a blog, articles can pick up searches for things about the area or the community or, or, or about home maintenance or whatever it might be that, that I might be looking for when I'm not in a shopping mode for a new home. But now that brand impression is, is there, um, it blogs also give your salespeople useful content to refer people to while they're nurturing them.

Greg Bray: (17:16)
You know, they came back and you know, they came to visit that you kinda got in the CRM, but now you know, the sales person can't just say, are you ready to buy yet? You're ready to buy yet you're ready to buy yet you've got to have something else to talk about. So, so blogs fill an important role there as well as far as referring to them. But, but then again, Google does like blogs too because there's large content blocks that end up naturally with keywords embedded in them and they can be very helpful from an SEO standpoint too

Stephanie Lindamood: (17:43)
for builders and their websites. Is it one of your goals to try to capture

Greg Bray: (17:49)
the

Stephanie Lindamood: (17:50)
client's email address when they're on the website to try to build an email list? Or is that, is that a focus for you guys or

Greg Bray: (17:59)
the, the ultimate goal of, of any type of lead generation activity is of course to get contact information, you know, name and email and phone number is the gold standard of what we're after. Um, now that doesn't mean that we get it on every visit, but we certainly want to make clear that that's our invitation. You know, the phrase calls to action on every page, um, you know, is, is where that that falls into place. Now we got to recognize that it doesn't mean that, that if we didn't get that, that, that we had a failed visit somehow to the website. Um, people were run at their own speed and some people are more shy, was sharing that information than others. But if you can give them a reason to do it, um, so primarily, especially if you can have some premium content that you'll make available, maybe it's a buyer's guide or you know, some type of document like that or, or, or some kind of community, you know, more depth, community in depth, community brochure information, they'd say, Hey, I'll be happy to email this to you.

Greg Bray: (18:59)
I just need your name and email. Another great way to, to capture contact information is to give them, um, things, things that they can save that they want to save. Whether that's a favorites type of feature. Like, here's my three favorite floor plans that I want to be able to find easily later or using tools like interactive floor plans where they can save their options and things like that. So when someone needs to save something, they're perfectly comfortable saying, Oh, I need to create an account and yeah, yeah, sure. Exactly. And, and um, and that way, you know, the, the most common username when you save an account is your email address because it's guaranteed to be unique. Um, and so you make that their login to come back and get the information. And of course, you know, you don't hide the fact that now I've got your email, I'm, I'm after you. I'm not going to sell it. I'm not going to abuse it, but Hey, I'm going to follow up and make sure that you found what you needed.

Stephanie Lindamood: (19:54)
Are you finding the, the clients that you work with, the buyers coming on the internet are interacting with maybe the internet sales concierge or chatbots or setting up any kind of physical appointment and the sales model? Or are they just wanting to have the online experience and then they're doing all of that separate from the website.

Greg Bray: (20:15)
Um, chat is definitely a growing area of people want their answers and they want them now and if they get frustrated and can't find what they're looking for and you've got the ability to have chat, uh, that can definitely help with that conversion and turn that into a lead. You know, of course the, the AI chatbots, um, you know, for those who aren't familiar, the basically it's a computer that's running your chat for you and, and dealing with some of those common questions, those have some amazing benefits of being fast and available 24 and things there. So definitely some opportunities, uh, for, from that standpoint. Um, you know, the, the opportunity to just connect with people quickly and get them the answers quickly is, is really important to folks. And, and they, you know, they value that. If you, you can't wait a week to get back to somebody. You can't, you can hardly even wait a day to get back to somebody anymore without them getting impatient.

Stephanie Lindamood: (21:14)
Right. Right. Now, I totally understand that. So when you're working with a builder that has multiple locations and you're building out the website, what type of content do you recommend they post? If they've got different product lines or different, um, buyer profiles? Like how do they showcase everything in an orderly fashion that's attractive online,

Greg Bray: (21:37)
you know, um, that, that's a great challenge that that comes up, um, for, for those builders that are, uh, kind of differentiating either by location or by, by buyer type. And at the end of the day, the goal is we have to guide them. We have to guide them through, through the process and, and do that by giving them ways that they can select. Now of course, if locations are different, a map where they click on the map, that's, that's one type of tool to help somebody select, right? Where thereafter, um, you know, but you can start to personalize and get more complicated even by doing location detection based on their computer and say, okay, Hey, if this person's in location a, we're going to default to show them that, you know, Metro areas, you know, community list versus just putting them on the homepage. Um, now, um, you have to be careful cause when people are moving their location may not represent the location they're interested in, cause they may not be where they're trying to move to, but, but you can start to personalize, you know, things along that line and, and really make an impact on, on making it faster and easier for them to find what they're after.

Stephanie Lindamood: (22:43)
And I would think your biggest in the builder's biggest competitor in a sense is trying to get the eyes off of the other online portals, like maybe a Zillow or realtor.com because they could technically find builder information there. So how do you get them to stay on your site and you get in there from the get go?

Greg Bray: (23:02)
Well obviously SEO to get them on your site first. It's all about SEO, but it's, it's, it's hard to compete with Zillow on SEO because they're such a well known brand. And let's, let's be honest, when, when Google's heard of you as a brand, you get some preference. I mean, until it has so much content, so much traffic. Um, the, the goal with third party sites that have your listings is for you to be optimizing your content and, and being on those, on those platforms if at all possible. You know, obviously there's budgetary constraints that can come into play there, but, but we certainly see Zillow driving some, some good leads to our builders and it's, it's definitely, um, uh, a source that you want to experiment with if you're not doing it today and see it works for you there. They do have some of that information there, but at the end of the day, their goal is to drive the lead back to the builder. Um, and you know, let's, let's not be, Oh, we're delete come from is important to track for budgeting purposes, but Hey, if we got a lead, we've got to lead and let's not worry where it came from, from the standpoint of, Oh well, you know, they got it from Zillow instead of from, you know, our website. That just means that we need to maybe well investment and see if we, if we're doing all we can there.

Stephanie Lindamood: (24:13)
Yeah. And it sounds like too, to keep them and to get them on your website, maybe you need to be offering additional things, differentiators besides just maybe the builder story and, or the property photos. Right. So when you were talking about if you've got a buyer's guide or you've got some other things that are unique to the builder that would really differentiate yourself, that would help that client build that brand awareness versus just being on a general real estate site where they could see other builders on the same site.

Greg Bray: (24:41)
Yeah, it's there. There's certainly, um, a challenge when you're on those listing sites where you've got your competitors potentially side-by-side. Um, and, and people are there and the, the flip side is, well, if I'm not there at all, then my competitors are all side by side without, yeah.

Stephanie Lindamood: (24:58)
Oh, sure, sure. No, you need to be there. I'm just saying as far as when they're thinking through what things do I need to have on my website that may attract a buyer or keep them on here longer that they can't get somewhere else. What are those things and what do they look like?

Greg Bray: (25:13)
And let's, let's remember to again, this idea that, that the journey of a home buyer is not a single visit to a website. You know, they, they may look at Zillow, they may see some, some different listings and such and come to your website, but, but they're going to continue that research over some period of time. And, and a, a serious buyer will probably make multiple visits to your site. So, so getting your name in front of them so that they're aware of you is really the number one step. Getting them to your website, helping them learn. And then using some tools like remarketing for example, uh, to, to have your, your opportunity to put your ads in front of them as they are continuing their, their search and see other sites that, um, just even if they're just doing their, their daily news, um, check and your, your ad can show there, keep that brand in front of them, help them remember who you are. You know, there's, there's lots of tools like that that can be useful. You know, Facebook remarketing as well. So, so they see your ads on Facebook after they've been to your site. Um, ways to, again, keep that, that brand in front of them as they go through that process and the journey. And hopefully you're also able to capture that email and then follow up with them and, and be putting additional content in front of them on a regular basis.

Stephanie Lindamood: (26:29)
So what do you feel like when you have on your clients, what's their biggest challenge when they're coming to you that you're solving for them?

Greg Bray: (26:37)
Well, most of them have have a couple of different kind of key challenges. One that the number one thing they're most interested in is more traffic. Uh, then then it's about converting that traffic. And then the other challenge that we work out with our builders is just simply site management and maintenance. So especially as, as the number of communities and, and inventory and floor plans gets larger and larger, it becomes a challenge for the marketing team to keep it con constant and UpToDate, uh, current, excuse me, not constant, keep it current and up to date. Um, and so we also help with, with those types of challenges as well as being able to manage that data more effectively connected to your systems with, with data feeds and things like that so that, so you can do your job of, of marketing and not have to sit there and spend all day just trying to make sure the prices are right on the website.

Stephanie Lindamood: (27:29)
And do you guys do anything tying it into social media or anything like that to kind of connect the website with Facebook, Instagram, anything like that?

Greg Bray: (27:38)
Um, we, we certainly help with, uh, running campaigns on social media and promoting, uh, various opportunities and linking back to the site. Uh, the, the links, um, one of the things we're experimenting with are some data feeds out to Facebook through their shopping channels, trying to list inventory homes on Facebook. So that's kind of a, an exciting area that that's kind of new still. And not too many builders seem to be doing it yet. Uh, but, but social media, um, is definitely an important part of that strategy and, and building that awareness and putting things out there so that, um, you can drive more traffic back to the site.

Stephanie Lindamood: (28:15)
When you look at the analytics with buyers, can you tell how long it takes the bio from when they start their search to purchase? Is it dependent by price point? Any details you could give a sales manager or marketing team if they're listening?

Greg Bray: (28:33)
Yeah, I don't know that we have the data to go all the way from first visit to, to final, um, you know, signed contract. That would be, that would be fabulous data. We don't always get the information back about the final contracts once those leads are generated and kind of headed off to the sales team. Um, that's something that we are talking to some, some of our clients about how can we marry that data together and connect that back because that would be really useful and fascinating. Um, but it, or, or, okay, some sophistication on that, that tracking and CRM piece that people aren't always quite ready to invest in today. Uh, but it's certainly, um, once you, once you have somebody in your CRM, that's the place that you start to track at that point, the, the continued part of their journey. So, so they come to the website, you get, you get the lead, they're in the CRM now you know who they are.

Greg Bray: (29:26)
Um, the, the quality marketing tools and automation tools are going to have what we call pixels tracking pixels that that you can use as, as you send someone emails or invite them back to look at content where then you can track what else that particular visitor has done on the website and be able to incorporate that into their record in the CRM and be able to see, Oh, okay. They came back, they looked at this community again, they looked at this model again. And that can be really valuable data for a salesperson to be able to follow up on as well. Say, Hey, I saw you're interested in the such and such, you know, would you like to schedule a tour?

Stephanie Lindamood: (30:02)
So I believe when we chatted in our emails before, you see about geo-fencing, is that right?

Greg Bray: (30:08)
Geo fencing is definitely an exciting new area.

Stephanie Lindamood: (30:11)
Okay. Talk to me about that. I know a little bit about it, but I want, I want to hear it because I've got a couple of builders. I know that I've been experimenting with it and it sounds like it's been pretty successful, but a lot of people don't know what it is.

Greg Bray: (30:22)
Sure. So, so geo-fencing at its heart is display advertising. It's, it's figuring out how to put ads on mobile devices. But what's unique about it is it is, it helps you define who you're going to show your ads to based on the locations that they've visited.

Stephanie Lindamood: (30:39)
Creepy. I think it's cool technology wise, but it's like big brother big time.

Greg Bray: (30:45)
Yeah, it is. And, and from a privacy standpoint, um, just to be clear, we, we never know exactly who is the individual that's, that's getting there. But, but the kind of the way it works is we set up a campaign, um, and we pick a location. So let's say, um, you know, if you're a builder, you want to know if someone is trying to buy a home. And so we decide what types of locations to people visit who are actively shopping for homes. So maybe there's a big, um, brokerage office in town. So we'll draw a little box on the map around that or that we call it fencing. Um, or you know, Hey, your competitors' sales office is a place where people go when they're interested in buying homes. Right. So, um, so we put a little fence around that and then what happens is when they come into those locations with a mobile device that has location services turned on, which almost all of them do now. Um,

Stephanie Lindamood: (31:44)
so hold up. So anyone that's listening, you can draw a proverbial fence around your competitions location. Yeah. And then target those people with your ads.

Greg Bray: (32:00)
Absolutely. It's a little scary. It is.

Stephanie Lindamood: (32:03)
I've heard it works really well though, because right. If they're walking into a master planning community down the street, then obviously they're looking for a home.

Greg Bray: (32:11)
Right. And we want to make sure that we, that we get those, those boundaries tight enough that we don't get the people just driving by on the highway. So we want to just, we just, we want to get the folks that are coming into the sales center and AI, it's not perfect in the sense that, you know, the, the people who work there are going to be the one going in there too, you know. But, but the, the idea is is, is we're narrowing that target for our ads so that we're, the money we're spending on ads is putting them in front of people that are in what we have. As opposed to that, you know, generic, you know, a broadcast of a radio ad or a billboard or where it's so many people that aren't interested are being exposed to the ad and at the end of the day you're paying for that even though they may not be in your target.

Greg Bray: (32:55)
So geo-fencing, we get really narrow if we've selected those locations properly. Um, and then once they have come in there to one of those locations there, their phone ID kind of goes on the list, so to speak, to receive the ads. So then they don't, sometimes people think, Oh, they walk in and their phone starts buzzing in their pocket or their purse and things go crazy and the bells and whistles start happening and no, that's not, that's not what happens. So they get put on the list and then later when they are looking at their phone, you know, whether they're pulling up, uh, the weather, whether they're playing angry birds or whatever their favorite game is, and those little ads show, instead of seeing a generic ad, they're going to see an ad from you that, or somebody else who's potentially targeted some other area they went to, but, um, you know, into, into that rotation.

Greg Bray: (33:42)
And, and typically they stay on your list for about 30 days after they visit. Now. Now the other thing Stephanie, that's really cool about geo fencing is we can also create what we call conversion zones. Um, and, and we do the same, same basic concept where we're fencing it. But this time what we're doing is we're fencing our own sales center. And so this says that this person went to the competitor sales center. We put them on the list, they saw our ad. So we track that, okay, this person saw the ad and when I say this person, this phone ID, we don't know the name of the person. And then that phone came to our sales center and so now we've got a conversion because they saw our ad and came to our sales center. And so that's really cool too because it's not dependent on them just visiting the website and filling out a form. Now we can also track the conversion based on them coming to us and visiting us physically.

Stephanie Lindamood: (34:35)
That's awesome. And I would think you could also, if you have a community where maybe a lot of the clients or buyers are coming from one specific area, you don't necessarily have to target the competition. You can also target that apartment complex or a certain neighborhood they're moving up from or something like that. Yeah, absolutely.

Greg Bray: (34:52)
Especially if you're kind of a first time home buyer market and you're, and you're doing a campaign, like why rent, when you can own, you know, some type of campaign like that, then yeah, you, you very well may want to go to, um, and, and fence those particular apartment complexes that have the right demographic or, or the right income levels, you know, for, for your homes and what you're offering and, and start showing them those types of ads. So you can definitely target very specifically, these don't have to be generic ads. They can be very campaign driven. Um, you know, they can be time-sensitive. You can rotate out the creative, you know, periodically and have different messages. So lots of things you can do with geo-fencing. Um, anything that you can do with normal ad campaigns, you can do a geo-fencing. It's just the geo fencing is giving us the ability to identify the target for these ads in a new way.

Stephanie Lindamood: (35:39)
Oh, that's awesome. It's so ingenious. So if you have a, a builder that's interested in wanting to talk to you about what to do with their website, what's kind of the process that you would take them through from the time you talk to them and understand what their goals are to them having a successful website that's up and running.

Greg Bray: (35:59)
Um, typically we're going to start with what we call some type of a, a site review or audit. Um, now, sometimes, sometimes people come to us and they say, look, we already know what's broken. Here's the things we're trying to fix. And so we don't have to do that. But sometimes they're like, Oh, you know, we want to do better, but we're not quite sure what to do to do better. And so that's where we would start with some type of a, an audit or review. Um, you know, those, those honestly, typically we do the, the simple ones for free, but sometimes people want really in depth ones and it is a paid service for that. Um, and, and with that, we generate kind of a, an initial plan of what's first. So if I look at a website and say, you know what, the site's not bad.

Greg Bray: (36:43)
What the problem is is it's not optimized for search engines, then we don't need to start over with a new website. We can simply move on to doing, you know, some SEO plans and, and figure that out. But what we don't want to do is do an SEO plan and drive traffic to a bad website that's not going to convert that traffic. So if the, if the foundation is lacking, we've gotta we gotta fix that first and make sure that we've got a website that that will convert the traffic before we spend time and money driving traffic. Otherwise you're just driving it into the trashcan and not getting yourself any, any return from that.

Stephanie Lindamood: (37:15)
And do you guys help those companies? Like let's say you see something and you're like, Oh wow, like the colors don't match and the fonts are off and the logo looks kind of old. Do you help them with that granular of marketing or do you say, Hey, you need to improve this and then refer them out? Or how does that work?

Greg Bray: (37:34)
So if we're talking about a full branding type of exercise, that is not something that we do. We've, we've got a few um, referral partners that we can connect people with if they're looking for a whole new look across the company. Um, if it's, if it's about just improving the look of the website and making sure it still matches the existing brand, that's something that we help us. So that's kind of where we draw that box for us is as a digital agency versus a full, you know, branding agency and, and really in today's advertising world there's, there's a lot of specialties kind of popping up. You know, the whole one one stop shop is getting harder and harder to do just because of all the different pieces that can go together with it.

Stephanie Lindamood: (38:14)
Right. And then are you seeing video be a big driver on the builder world? I mean, we know it's a huge just in general with driving content, but how is it being used for new home builders?

Greg Bray: (38:28)
Video video is great. People can consume video so much faster than they can consume text and they can absorb. And you can, you have talking about emotional connection a few minutes ago and video helps people connect emotionally a lot, a lot faster. So, so where do we see video showing up? Well, of course on the tour side, you know, the, the tours of homes and things with, with video and whether that's, you know, a video that is shot in a, in a actual physical home or whether it's more of a, uh, uh, computer generated video that sometimes it's hard to tell the difference anymore. Um, that that comes just from, you know, a designer putting together, um, that, uh, that, that view. The other, the other place we see video a really popular is in the testimonial side. You know, and, and I, I see, I see some builders doing some, some great things where they, you know, when, when the person, their customer buys the home, they do a little, a little video of, you know, that that exciting closing moments, you know, kind of a thing or move in day or whatever you want to call it.

Greg Bray: (39:31)
And then the other opportunity, I think that's there is kind of schedule that 30 day followup meetings. So 30 days after they've moved in and, and you go and now they've got, you know, their pictures are up on the wall, they've unpacked the boxes, you know, their furniture's in the home. So it, it feels homey compared to the big empty room. Right, right. And then, you know, you get them on the couch and you get, it doesn't have to be a real expensive camera, you know, and you ask him five or six questions say, Hey, can we, can we record this? And you know, you're just asking them, what do you love most about your home? What was the best part of the process? Why did you decide to, to build with us? You know, what would you tell a friend who was thinking about working with us? And then you can kind of edit out, you know, we're not talking about 30 minutes, we're trying to get two minutes or less. Um, and so you edit out kind of the asking of the questions and just kind of put that together with them talking and what's the background? The background is the home you built for them. You know, and, and it's be there, they should be excited. If they're not, then you know, it's a whole different visit. So you can deal with those

Stephanie Lindamood: (40:33)
warranty visit.

Greg Bray: (40:35)
Yeah. So, so of course, if they're not willing to do that and they're angry because something's wrong then, then you need to take care of that first. Um, but I think video has a real, those are powerful cause, you know, we all, we see these texts, testimonials, you know, Bob and Carol said, great job guys, you know, or whatever. And, and you just, is it real? Or Bob and Carol just, you know, somebody who made up and just wrote it. But video feels real to people. Um, on that testimonial side and they, they connect with it again a lot, a lot more than they do with the text.

Stephanie Lindamood: (41:05)
So it was kind of timely today. You posted something on LinkedIn and I wanted you to talk about this event that you're going to be speaking at and the topic you're going to be talking about sounded really interesting. So I wanted to let you talk about that. Highlighted it says something about how to market yourself and your website, but do it legally or scan a legal trouble.

Greg Bray: (41:24)
Yeah. So, so what's happening? So, um, I, I'm going to be speaking at the Southeast, uh, building conference, CBC in July in Orlando. I've, we've been there for the last few years and it's, it's a nice, it's a nice conference, especially if you're looking for a little getaway in July to Orlando. You know, it's a, it's a good, good way to connect a business trip with a family trip. Um, what does that stand for again? Sorry, Southeast building conference. CPC. Yeah. Um, and the topic that we're dealing with there is, um, website accessibility. Uh, and so sometimes it's referred to as ADA compliance for your website. And this is definitely an area that, that builders need to be paying attention to. Um, what's, what's happening is there's been a huge increase over the last two or three years in legal action, this being taken against websites that are not following these accessibility guidelines.

Greg Bray: (42:18)
And at the heart of it is, and builders are all very familiar with the idea of ADA compliance physically for their structures and what they have to build to, to accommodate people that had some of these extra challenges. And what's happening is, is that we, because of the way the internet has become entwined with the services that we're delivering as, as businesses, that, that really, these laws are being applied now to say that equal access to information is required as well, not just equal access physically to a, a S a structure or an officer or building. So, so when someone is visually impaired or, and uses a screen reader to access your website, you know, if it's not built right, they can't get the information. Um, when, when someone has physical disabilities where they can't use a mouse and they can only use a keyboard and they have to tab through a website.

Greg Bray: (43:10)
These are things that most of us don't think about on a daily basis, but, but the, the website has to be put together, right. In order for the tabs to work and not, and be something where they can actually navigate and get through there. And so these are some examples of what website accessibility is all about. And, and what's, what's really changed is a couple of years ago there were some lawsuits that came out and the judges decided that the existing laws, so, so you know, the ADA and fair housing act and some of these other laws do apply to websites as well. And that was the big precedent change and it's opened a floodgate of legal action. That's the, it's happened over the last couple of years where we're now, because you know, there's nothing, these laws are old enough that there's nothing in the law that actually mentions internet or website.

Greg Bray: (43:55)
Right. It's not, it's not there figured out with tech world of technology trying to, with it being so ubiquitous like you said. Yeah, exactly. And so, so, and you know, some of these are potentially a little bit predatory, you know, where it's the same plaintiff going after site after site after site trying to make a difference. But the reality is, is that something that we've all ignored for a long time and our company included, we didn't pay as much attention to it as we should have. And we've really made a recommitted over the last two years to do a better job there. And we're also trying to get the word out to help others do a better job because frankly, um, you know, when, when folks get these nasty letters from these attorneys, it costs them money to kind of clean things up and do better. Um, and so trying to help people avoid that bad experience too.

Stephanie Lindamood: (44:42)
So how, how easy or hard is that? Is that going in and just changing it, adding a widget to like your WordPress, or is that like how in depth does that,

Greg Bray: (44:53)
it's really going to depend a lot on how the site was built. Um, you know, more. And it also one of, one of the challenges with the whole state of that situation is the fact that the, the guidelines are not, um, defined in a way that is clear what's good enough legally. So there's this, there's this whole set of guidelines of how to accommodate, um, various technologies, you know, and, and be able to build a site that, that works well. But there's no clear guideline that says, you know, if you've done 90% of these, you're okay and not going to get sued. Or does it have to be 99% of these are 100% of these were, where's that line? And then the other challenge that comes into play. So, so for example, saying one thing that is required by accessibility guidelines is if you post a video on your website, it has to have closed captioning. Okay. Okay. So, so that's just a simple example, right? So what happens if nine out of my 10 videos have closed captioning, but I forgot to do one, you know, is that good enough to not get sued? You know, am I still compliant? Am I not compliant? You know, I'm trying because obviously I did it for nine videos and not the tenants. So, so this is a real fuzzy area. So I'm getting off on a tangent. Okay.

Stephanie Lindamood: (46:08)
No, well, what I was gonna ask is, is this for all companies or is it specific to home builders because of the fair housing laws?

Greg Bray: (46:15)
It's, it's for all companies now. It's for all companies. So, so the big, the big case was the sh, uh, grocery chain when Dixie, um, a couple of years ago they lost their case. Um, and I mean, Domino's pizza is in the process of, uh, they have a case pending right now that they're working on. You know, there's, there's lots of big names that are being sued for this. Um, home builders I think have a particular exposure because of the distance factor where you can't just say can come visit me if it's not physically possible for them cause they're moving from out of state or something like that. The website is your sales office for that distance person. Um, there's also ADA applies to a lot of companies, but fair housing act also has some phrases and that's, you know, more housing specific. Um, you know, fair housing act says you can't discriminate on access of information, you know, in advertising and it has a phrase about advertising.

Greg Bray: (47:11)
It doesn't say internet, but it says advertising in there. And so, you know, if people can't access your advertising because it's all on your website, then then there's some potential issues there. So again, it's, it's an area that, that everybody needs to be paying more attention to. And you know how, again, the question is how much do you need to avoid a lawsuit is probably a little bit of a different question than how much do I need to be perfectly available. But again, let's not forget that the purpose is not just to avoid a lawsuit. This actually opens up your business to a whole nother market segment of people that, and it's a competitive advantage right now. If you're the only builder in town whose website is usable by somebody that has one of these challenges, where are they going to go and get their information and buy their home? Right? You know that it's going to be from the one that they can use and visit. And so in the short term, until everybody catches up, it's a competitive advantage to be accessible as well. And as a side benefit, Google actually benefits from some of these changes. While a lot there's a lot of overlap between accessibility and SEO and some of the things that you do for the website as far as how you explain images for example, and things like that.

Stephanie Lindamood: (48:21)
So last question, if I ask every guest five questions to get to know you a little bit better, but last question before I do that, I'm going to put you on the spot just a little bit. Cause I know there's people thinking this in the car when they're listen to this or on the treadmill and they're thinking, okay Greg, you sound like a nice guy. What's the difference between blue, Tangerine and any other website company we could hire digital marketing company and, or the marketing department that we have already built our current site. So like give me how you guys are different, your unique value proposition so we can understand what you offer the marketplace.

Greg Bray: (48:54)
Sure. No, that's, that's a great question. I appreciate that opportunity. Um, so when you're talking about the, the agency down the street, which is probably the one that we compete with the most, you know, what we bring to the table is homebuilder expertise. Um, you know, there, there are lots of digital agencies that, that um,

Greg Bray: (49:14)
can spell SEO and do a decent job and everything else, um, uh, with that. But, but what we're going to do is we're going to tell you what you should be doing as opposed to being an order taker and just doing what you ask us to do, um, from, from the builder standpoint, you know. Um, and, and there's some other agencies out there that do a great job that are in the home builder space specifically as well. And I think there's plenty of stuff for us to, you know, work on together and help the industry as a whole grow. Um, we are really strong on the data integration side. I think that's a bit of a differentiator, um, because of, of some of our experience, you know, we've been, I've been doing this for a long time. You know, I, I've been building websites for over 25 years and been working in the home building industry for over 20 now. Um, I know I don't sound that old, but you know, I am.

Stephanie Lindamood: (50:00)
You started when you were five, right?

Greg Bray: (50:01)
Yeah, that's a that's right. That's right. Um, but yeah, the internet wasn't around when I was [inaudible]

Stephanie Lindamood: (50:08)
I was in seventh grade and they were talking about the worldwide web and no joke. I was like, why are y'all talking about spiderwebs? Like what is like, I had absolutely no clue.

Greg Bray: (50:18)
Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's amazing how, how much a part of our lives Internet's become in a very short time for sure.

Stephanie Lindamood: (50:28)
All right, five questions. What's one thing that most people don't know about you?

Greg Bray: (50:32)
I think most people probably don't know that I've got six kids. Oh, wow. That's, that's a, that's a little different. It's not something that happens every day. Um, and, and I, I just, I love having a large family and the joy and excitement that comes from that. And at the end of the day, that's what drives me to do what I do, is to provide for them and, and help them have, you know, comfortable and enjoyable lives and, and all the joy in life comes from family.

Stephanie Lindamood: (50:56)
Any multiples in there? I'll, I'll actually, I do have twins. Twins. Yeah. Yeah. So, so yes. Um, do I have some twins? What are the range of ages? Um, we go from, from 12 to 23. Oh, wow. Nice. Okay, cool. They're all like good ages.

Greg Bray: (51:11)
Yeah. Yeah. That's [inaudible]

Stephanie Lindamood: (51:12)
no more changing diapers. Yes. They get off. Buckle seatbelts. All right. Uh, question two is two parts. So what's the best piece of advice you've ever received?

Greg Bray: (51:23)
The best piece of advice that I've ever received is if it won't matter tomorrow morning, then it doesn't need to matter now. Um, and, and I think, and I got that in the context of marriage advice. So, so, you know, you know, if, if, if, whatever you're upset about or angry about is, you know, if it's not gonna matter tomorrow morning, then let it go, you know, just let it go and move on. And I, but I think it applies a lot in a lot of other situations besides just those, you know, little disagreements that come up at home sometimes. But yeah, that's, that's been a good one. Um, and, and helped me kind of let go, you know, cause there's always times where people, there's misunderstandings and things that come up and, you know, what was this person really trying to be rude or was it just kind of a misunderstanding? So,

Stephanie Lindamood: (52:09)
yeah, no, I love that. What's the best piece of advice that you would want to give the audience listening today?

Greg Bray: (52:14)
Um, I, I think when I think of, you know, business owners and marketers and, and such that are listening, um, it can get a little overwhelming sometimes all these choices that you have. And we can get stuck in saying, I know I need this, I need this, I need this, and I don't know where to start. And, and I'm scared to, you know, talk to somebody like Greg because they're going to just take all my money and take advantage of me and you know, all these things and we just get scared. And at the end of the day, doing nothing is a choice and, and it costs money. I, I, I had a, a perspective client, um, that, that kind of started talking to about a couple months ago where we did a proposal over a year ago and they said, we think we're ready this year. Maybe to get a new website and say, do you know how many leads you lost by not doing this last year? Right. Um, you know, so just, and again, it's not that, it's not that you have to do everything all at once, but take a step forward. Don't just hang back and wait, just pick something and try it. It's not the end of the world. If you make a mistake, you know, you, you're, you're gonna at a minimum, you're going to learn something from the experience and, and hopefully, you know, move your business forward.

Stephanie Lindamood: (53:26)
I wanted to mention one thing when you were talking about your differentiators. Um, so w so that we made it clear to the audience, you guys integrate with CRMs and other technologies, so if they already have an existing CRM database, that kind of thing, a lot of what you do integrates with that so that they can create a holistic solution.

Greg Bray: (53:45)
Absolutely. And I think that's really an important next step. A few years ago, builders weren't too worried about, they were just trying to figure out what a CRM was and why they still are, frankly. Yeah, yeah, that's true too. But, but now that you've got it, now it's about trying to get that, that connection and that connectivity between your systems in the office where you're managing your pricing and making sure your inventory is up to date and pushing data back and forth. Or maybe you're trying to get this things out on Zillow or on BDX and trying not to have to manage those manually. All these opportunities for integrations of moving data so that it's just let the computer do the work instead of your people.

Stephanie Lindamood: (54:20)
Right. And I that's, I just wanted to mention that because I know that to your point, there's a lot of fear and Hey, what we have isn't necessarily broken and if they don't realize the gain, sometimes the pain of making the change is greater than the benefit. So just wanted to mention that question three. What's one of your favorite books or the one that's had the greatest impact on you?

Greg Bray: (54:43)
Um, from a, from a business standpoint, I think the one that's, that's had the greatest impact is, is, um, seven habits of highly effective people by Covey. Um, that's one that, that I came across early in my career and, and really some of those, I still, I still struggle to, to focus on the, um, important and not urgent quadrant. You know, for those who have read that book, you'll know what I'm talking about. And, and I still remember the sharpening massage, you know, as, as one of those key things that I gotta make sure I make time for. So, so that's had, um, a lot of impact on me. Um, you know, from, from uh, business standpoint for sure.

Stephanie Lindamood: (55:22)
Are you familiar with Michael Hyatt? Okay. So the audience is like rolling their eyes cause they hear me talk about this all the time. Michael Haya is a, he used to be in a different industry but now he's in the productivity world so you can find them on Instagram or Facebook or anything. But he has a book called free to focus and he came out with a, a planner called the full focus planner and they have different additions. This is the executive one and aye got introduced to him at the end of 2019 read his book. Got the planner because what it does is you know how you have these big goals and you have six kids, so I can only imagine and you work full time, I can only imagine your life and then you kind of get into your day to day and go, Oh my gosh, like I didn't do any of this stuff that I wanted to because the day to day tasks and like you said, the important but not urgent, that kind of stuff. And it really helps you align out your annual goals to break it down quarterly, to then break them down monthly, break them down weekly and then daily in a way that it's, so if you like that kind of stuff, you might find some value out of that.

Greg Bray: (56:27)
Yeah, absolutely. I'll take a look.

Stephanie Lindamood: (56:29)
All right. What's your current morning routine as a successful technology owner, president of your company? How do you manage it all with the family life and the business?

Greg Bray: (56:39)
Yeah, I'm up early, you know, to typically up between five and five 30, you know, and, and spend, uh, spend some time outside walking the dog. Um, and, uh, kind of do some podcasts listening while I'm, while I'm doing that, you know, kinda keep up on things and we rotate that. Sometimes a little exercise. So exercise in the morning for sure is critical and try to get that in. Um, try to, I usually get the desk between seven 30, seven 45 in the morning to try and kind of clear out the clutter before the new days Day-Lewis starts coming and such. But, uh, but yeah, it's, you know, it's, it's certainly certainly still working for a living, you know, it's not, it's not for, I'm not one of these four hour Workday kinda guy, um, by any means yet. Maybe someday. Um, but, but it's, it's exciting though to see the things that we do make a difference in people's businesses. Get a lot of satisfaction from that.

Stephanie Lindamood: (57:32)
All right, last question. So how do you unplug and unwind?

Greg Bray: (57:36)
You know, I'm a reader. Um, and so, you know, again, I, I love to spend time with my, my wife and kids of course. Um, and that's, that's fun. But when I'm looking for that total escape, I, I like kind of that, that science fiction fantasy genre of, of books and things like that. So, you know, really, really enjoy kind of going to another world, so to speak for a little while and really admire the authors that are able to create, um, that kind of world, that where you can feel like you're visiting and going there and at somewhere just totally different.

Stephanie Lindamood: (58:06)
Well, in a way you kind of do that in the online space I think.

Greg Bray: (58:10)
Yeah. You know, we're creating virtual worlds, right, all the time. Sure.

Stephanie Lindamood: (58:13)
So people want to get in touch with you, reach out, connect. How is the best place? Is it LinkedIn, Instagram, your website? All the above?

Greg Bray: (58:20)
Yeah, our, our website blue, tangerine.com. Um, there and LinkedIn of course. Um, you can find Greg Bray. There's, there's a few other Greg braise I've discovered, but you know, the [inaudible] but uh, should, should pop up or just Greg at blue, tangerine.com drop me an email. Happy to, happy to chat.

Stephanie Lindamood: (58:37)
And what I'll do is I'll put your links in the show notes. That way they make sure they connect with the right one. Terrific. Awesome. Well we appreciate your time. Thanks for sharing us with us all of your knowledge cause I think um, what you're talking about with websites is really beneficial because five or six years ago it might've been, Hey we really don't have one yet. Or they knew it was outdated. Now enough of them have done enough things with maybe mobile or optimization where this may be their second iteration, but they may need to do a third or fourth with the user experience in mind.

Greg Bray: (59:07)
Well it's been terrific. I appreciate the opportunity to definitely, I hope it's hope it's been useful and you know, if questions come up or we need to clarify something, let me know.

Stephanie Lindamood: (59:14)
Sounds great. [inaudible] thanks. Ooh, that was a lot of great information. So if you think your website need some tweaking or a complete overhaul, make sure to reach out to Greg and his team at blue Tangerine. Thank you so much for joining us. Okay, so links and everything is going to be in the shownotes at the glam girl, boss.com forward slash podcast. Again, the glam girl, boss.com forward slash podcast. It would mean the world to me. If you would subscribe to this show and hop on over to the reviews page and leave a quick review, five star rating, letting me know what resonated with you the most, and also let me know how much you love Greg and his information so we can thank him for his time today. If you haven't already, I would love to connect it to you on Instagram. Find me at miss Stephanie Lindamood and I'll see you next week. Bye guys.